October 7 rewrites make this a play of the moment
Jewish Telegraph, October 2024
THE Covid pandemic initially held up the original American production of What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank.
And the London transfer of Nathan Englander’s “serious comedy” was affected by the October 7 attack on Israel.
The play — which is being staged at London’s Marylebone Theatre until November 23 — sees two Jewish families meeting up in Miami where many subjects come under discussion.
Obviously, since October 7, there is one topic that features highly in any discussion — Gaza.
Joshua Malina, who stars as Phil, explained that Nathan and director Patrick Marber were already “deep into adapting the play for a London audience” when Hamas staged its attack, killing 1,200 people.
“I think they just decided that it would feel like a museum piece if it were performed post-October 7, but set pre-October 7,” said Joshua, who will be recognisable to audiences from his roles in The West Wing and Big Bang Theory.
“Nathan did an incredibly audacious and significant rewrite to make the play really apt for the times. It’s a play of the moment. It was a brilliant rewrite, and so I’m thrilled to be in a new iteration of what I already considered to be a wonderful play.”
He added: “The current production is basically set today, whatever day we’re performing it. But let’s be clear, it’s not about Israel or Gaza or Palestine, but there is significant discussion and argument about these issues in that area of the world.
“And so Nathan has even written things in as recently as a few days ago to reflect current events. So it’s a very, very current play.”
New York-born Joshua first became involved in What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank in 2019 when his agent sent him the script for a San Diego staging.
“I noticed that it had been written by Nathan Englander, who continues to be one of my favourite writers. So I was thrilled to read this play,” he said.
“I had read the short story on which it is based and the rest of the collection. I read a beautiful novella he wrote called Kaddish.com and a book called Dinner at the Center of the Earth.
“When I read the play, it felt like someone had written the role for me. It felt like a natural fit.
“I hadn’t done a play for the previous three decades. I’ve been doing TV work for many years in Los Angeles. I started as a theatre actor, but having kids and needing money, theatre felt like something I couldn’t afford to do.
“I was very excited about doing the play . . . then the pandemic hit, so every six months they would say ‘no we can’t do it, theatre isn’t back’.”
Joshua added: “In September 2022, we finally did the play and I loved it. I became good friends with Nathan because he was there for the entirety of the rehearsal period and performances.
“I told him, it was a dream role and a wonderful play. If I could sign away the rest of my career to only do this role, then I would.”
Joshua then landed a role in Tom Stoppard’s award-winning play Leopoldstadt “through some miracle of good fortune” during its Broadway run last year — and the director was Patrick Marber.
“We became close and I had a wonderful experience working with him,” he told me. “I gave him the play as I knew he would connect with it and connect with Nathan. They met and he decided to work on the play together to get it in London.”
He explained: “It’s a five hander — two couples, and the son of one of the couples.
“I play the husband of a couple whose Jewish identity is important to them, but they really are secular Jews. The other couple are Orthodox Jews.
“The wives knew each other growing up when they went to religious school. One became more religious, one became less and they haven’t met or interacted in 20 years at the opening of the play.
“But the couple that now lives in Israel are coming to visit us in Miami.
“I know it speaks to non-Jewish audiences. We had a largely non-Jewish audience in California when we did the play. So it’s about things that everybody can connect with, issues of faith and identity and friendship and family, and trying to find a way to interact and have some understanding of other people’s points of view on difficult, thorny subjects.”
Joshua added: “I think the play shows a world that, at least in the US, we don’t see as much as we should. We’re so polarised. Everybody tends to be in their separate echo chamber, interacting with people with whom they largely agree.
“And this play shows a long day and night, probably over the course of six or seven hours, of hanging out and eating and drinking and arguing. And I think the ultimate take away is that these conversations need to happen more.”
Joshua also said there is no going off script, explaining: “As a Jew, I’ve grown up with great reverence for the text. You don’t go off script with the Torah. You don’t go off script with the play.
“In the rehearsal period, both Nathan and Patrick were remarkably collaborative. I’m not one of those actors who says my character wouldn’t say this, because what I’m given tells me what my character says. So I just feel like that’s the writer’s prerogative. The writer tells you what the actor says, and the actor has to make it work.
“Patrick and Nathan were always very open to our input. So given that invitation, it was a special experience to be able to have some input.
“When our thoughts were asked for, we provided them, and we got into some very interesting questions. And often Nathan would rewrite, having considered what the actors had to say.”
Joshua pointed out that he doesn’t agree with everything his character says.
He said: “I’m not playing myself, and so that’s always the case, but I do feel because I care deeply about Israel and about Palestinian rights, and I believe there’s a way to be pro-Israel and believe in . . . I don’t think Zionism is a dirty word, and the fundamental right of the Jewish state to exist is something I’m comfortable with.
“At the same time I believe in Palestinian rights, and I don’t think being pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian are mutually exclusive, and we have to find a way in a world in which we can support both endeavours and both people’s rights.
“My deep concern and caring about these issues fuels my performance. I find myself moved every night doing the play because I care so deeply about these issues.”
He was also keen to point out that despite the serious nature of the play it is “a comedy. It is a very funny, often raucously hilarious”.
Joshua said: “It is a continuously funny play to watch, and that’s one of the things I responded to. Even in the pre-October 7 version, I was just blown away reading the play by how from one moment to the other, it can be deeply funny and also searingly painful and serious.
“It’s a really special piece of writing. And every time I perform the play, we get back to the dressing room and look at each other and say something along the lines of ‘this is an incredible play we’re getting to do’.”
Joshua believes it is “a cathartic experience to laugh in the face of bleakness and darkness. There’s something optimistic about just the physical action of laughing and finding humour.
“Humour and hope are somehow entwined.”
Joshua is pretty vocal online about the situation in Israel and Gaza, but he says that has led to some people calling him a “filthy Zionist”, while others call him a “kapo” if he criticises Israel’s actions.
“I don’t think my opinion on these topics is more important than anyone else’s,” he told me. “I am not an expert on anything, and certainly not on Middle East affairs, but I do — for better or worse — share my views on social media.
“I don’t post with an aim to rile people up, but I do feel that if my posts have angered folks who have diametrically opposed views, then perhaps I am staking out some ground in that dangerous gray area between polarised opinions.
“That’s the zone that we have to explore more, and I think that’s the magic of what Nathan has pulled off with this play.
“You asked me whether I expect protests or demonstrations, and I don’t know what the reaction will be, but I can say that were someone to object to the content of the play I could not predict whether it’s more likely to be someone who is ardently pro-Israel, or someone deeply committed to Palestinian rights.
“It’s one of the great strengths of the play that it is not didactic or tendentious. Patrick and Nathan are not interested in telling the audience what to think, but rather encouraging people to be open to narratives that challenge their own entrenched opinions.
“And Nathan’s ability to make you think, feel, and laugh, while witnessing uncomfortable discussions, makes What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank a very special piece of work. There’s some real magic to it.”
What We Talk About also stars Manchester-born Caroline Catz, Dorothea Myer-Bennett, Simon Yadoo and Gabriel Howell.
Tinyurl.com/JoshuaWWTA
